Copywriting Tips & Strategy with Jenny Roth | 63
This week’s inspiring teacherpreneur journey is with Jenny Roth of Jenny Roth Copywriting. I loved chatting with her about her best copy tips, tricks, and strategies because let me tell you… You’ve been way overthinking your email subject lines.
Jenny believes in joyful and strategic email and sales page copy that welcomes your clients with open arms. She is an amazing copywriter for coaches and online service providers who also believes in being yourself and using all the emojis you want (if that's your thing!).
Jenny and I chat all about writing copy for your emails. She even shares some of her best tips like:
Guess what?! You're spending way too much worrying about your email subject lines
How sharing your own story can be better than telling people what to do when it comes to writing sales copy
Connect with Jenny:
Website: JennyRothCopywriting.com
Watch Jenny's free 15 minute masterclass on how to write an amazing email welcome sequence here!
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Episode Transcript:
Jenzaia: [00:00:00] Hey there, I'm Jenzaia. And this is market scale growth. A podcast created for ambitious entrepreneurs looking to have a bigger impact on the world. Achieve freedom, flexibility, and ultimately make more money. With weekly strategy sessions and inspiring stories from fellow teachers, just like you. My goal here is to help you create a customized marketing strategy so you can grow your teacher business beyond your wildest dreams.
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Okay, so it's birthday month. I am a February baby. I'm super excited. We are totally celebrating in the facebook group. It all starts February 27. Go on the whole week. There's going to be live trainings. There are going to be some fun activities. There's going to be some giveaway. So come to the group and join us for all of the festivities.
The link to join is [00:02:00] marketscalegrow.com/community. I can't wait to see you there.
Welcome to market scale grow. I'm so excited. You're joining us today. We have an exciting guest Jenny from Jenny Roth copywriting, and she's here to talk to us all about copywriting. So welcome, Jenny.
Jenny: Hi, Jenzaia thank you for having me. I'm excited to visit with you.
Jenzaia: Yeah. Do you want to just get started about a little bit about your journey, how you got into copywriting and. Who you primarily work with and what you do, I guess.
Jenny: Yeah, for sure. So I am a mom of three daughters and I live in a very tiny rural town in the Midwest and the states, I think like every writer starts their story here as being like, I always love to write and that's cliche, but very true for me. It's always like, At school.
I remember in college, people complaining about papers they had to write and I'd be like, I'll write that for you for like 50 [00:03:00] bucks. Like, what are you complaining about? I love always like draining. And so, um, my husband and I got married really young. He had three kids in four years and so I became a stay at home mom. With them. And when I had, uh, like, you know, when everyone was sleeping through the night and I had a little more space in my life to breathe, I kind of started thinking like, what can I do in my time? Other than like clean the house and scroll Facebook. Right. And what can I do from home? I'd still be here with my kids..
So I'm remember literally writing down, like, what do you like to do again, Jenny? You know, when you come out of that fog of little kids and writing is at the top of the list, I just really started looking at my area and found a magazine, a local magazine here. I started out as a writer there and I became the editor there and soon, you know, people hear that you can write, they're like I have this blog post.
I hate writing. Can you do it? And I have this website and I hate writing. Can you do it? I knew enough to be dangerous. So I was like, sure. And just kind of started taking on these projects and taking courses to learn copywriting. In the meantime, discovered this whole world [00:04:00] of online writing and copywriting, and really felt like this was something I could do from home and take care of my kids and something that really played on the fact that as a magazine editor, I got to talk to a lot of business owners and hear these stories from people who own the shops that I have gone into for the last 20 years and had no idea.
There's a story or their journey that has always really fascinated me, that you can pass the same person on the street by the same thing from the same shop owner and not really know who they are and where they came from and what they do every day. And so seeing online businesses that I could do that for them, that's really how copywriting has taken off for me.
Jenzaia: That's so cool that your passion all through life has now collided into your livelihood and you can get to do what you love doing all day. Plus be at home with your baby. They're not babies anymore though. Are they?
Jenny: They're all, they're all in school now. So yeah, they're older now, but yeah, you're right. I mean, growing up around here where I still live, you know, everyone works really hard.
[00:05:00] Farming agriculture is huge here. When you think of liking something like writing or art or, or anything creative like that, you kind of grow up thinking, oh yeah. Well, that's a nice little fun side thing that I like to do, but if I want to do that, like, I'll be poor forever. I'll never make money doing that.
That's just something I'm going to have to do in my free time if I have free time. Right. And so to be able to do that and discover like copywriting. Online business space, where you can build a business, doing things that you love for me has been, yeah, a huge gift.
Jenzaia: A little bit imagining one of those hallmark movies where you're like the best friend and you're going in and you're getting this person's story and you're getting this person's story.
And I'm just, that's what I'm imagining your life with the boutique shops.
Jenny: Oh, it is my life. It's like, you don't know what you want to be when you grew up, you'd write or because you get to talk to like all professions, dive into their world for like two weeks, like really feel what it's like to be them and be their [00:06:00] clients. And then move on to the next one.
Jenzaia: It's really fun. It's really cool. How the online space has opened this entire world of possibility for you that you can. Take that magazine idea and then amplify it exponentially with other clients online and other businesses that if you were to just stay locally in your small town, you'd never have the chance to, to work with them. So that's really cool too.
Jenny: Yes, for sure.
Jenzaia: So where are some places that copywriting shows up in your business?
Jenny: Oh, my gosh. Well, if you're ever run into online business, you probably feel like you signed up for this and didn't realize how much writing, like copy writing really is any writing you do for your business, with the intention to speak to your clients, to tell your story, to connect with those clients and to sell your offers and your services and make sales and tell people why they should buy from you.
Right. I work with you. So copywriting's [00:07:00] everywhere. It's your Instagram. It's your bio. It's your emails. If you're emailing your list ads, you're taking out blog, posts your website. I feel like there's always that debate. If you see online, like content writing versus copywriting, for me, they're just so overlapped.
I just call any writing that you do for your business copywriting, because it all has a purpose behind it, right? It's to grow your business and to reach your clients that you want to work with. All of it. Yeah.
Jenzaia: That's so true. There is a huge overlap. And especially with the direction, I feel like marketing is heading. Those content posts are becoming more and more soft sells and more and more like marketing your business through your content. If your intention with copywriting is to be selling your business and attracting new people in your content also has those exact same goals then. Yeah. It's a total overlap between the two.
Jenny: For sure.
Jenzaia: So as a newbie copywriter, where would I get started to improve? Like, let's say blog posts, like what are some [00:08:00] copywriting tips that you can give me for improving a blog post?
Jenny: Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, no, no. It's good copywriting for your, for your business. Like whether you're writing for your blog post or anything, like in, you're just going to start it and you kind of have that feeling like you sit down to the keyboard, like we all get it, you sit at the keyboard and you're like freeze up and like, what do I say?
How do I make sure I don't sound ridiculous? You know, all these things like flood into your head, like, is this too salesy? What, what do I even talk about? Like, does this even sound like me? Does anybody. I write for a living first tip would be to start, like to start there. I write for a living and I have all of those things that come up when I sit down to write.
So if you sit down to write for your business and you instantly feel like you've all of a sudden, like froze into an ice cube and like cannot even speak like yourself and don't even know the purpose of your existence and what you want to say. Like that stuff is so normal. So just know that that flooding, and when you sit down to write for your business..
It's normal and everybody [00:09:00] feels that way. And it has nothing to do with when they're not like you're a good business owner or writer for your business. So I guess that's step one is to recognize that and be like, oh, hello, here you are. You know, this block that comes up for us.
Jenzaia: I feel a little attacked or seen is probably the nicer way to put it. I definitely have those moments of, I can't write anything. What if the wrong words are the ones I write?
Jenny: Yeah. It's so normal. And. So knowing that that's just part of it, that's part of the process. And then to work through that, I guess one of my best tips that I do myself. And teach others to do is I call it free writing.
And so I learned this when I was homeschooling my kids. This isn't a writing program called brave writer that I learned to teach my kids writing. Um, and she calls it free writing. And basically you set the timer for five minutes and you just write, you just write like you're 12 year old girl, dear diary.
No, one's going to read this and no one cares how you sound. Don't worry how you spell things or [00:10:00] edit or just write, write. And when the timers stops, you will have at least something out on the paper and you'll have gotten over that hump of like, I don't even know where to start and then you can go back and edit, Polish it up.
All of that. It really kind of removes that block. What do I even say? So free writing, like that is huge for me. Another tip for copywriting is just to get the words out is if you prefer to speak and you're sitting at the computer just is not feeling right. I will literally pen to paper write sometimes that helps.
Or like there's a free voice recorder app on my phone. Literally just talk, say what you are, what you want to say and get it out that way. So those are tips for just kind of getting it out. And as far as. Um, connecting with your client and being words that can then lead into sales. My best tip there is to know who you're talking to really, really, really well know your ideal client really well, not just like she's in her thirties and has a business.
No. Like [00:11:00] if you can niche down as specific as possible and picture this person sitting across a desk from you and what you'd say to her, If she came to you and said, Hey, what do you do? How can you help me? It will make it so much easier if you know exactly who you're writing to and what you help them with as an extension of that.
So they kind of, it's like a rule of one, like talk to one person about one thing, forget all the rest that can come in and another blog post. So it really kind of humanizes your words and has an intention behind them for a specific person.
Jenzaia: I really liked the visual of somebody sitting in desk across from you, or if you're having a cup of coffee with someone and just having a conversation, I really like that.
I've always heard the pick a person and talk to them, but for some reason, Idea. And that visual is sitting across from someone it's like struck home with me. I liked that. And I do that talk things out all the time. Like I remember in high school and university getting ready for like a presentation or [00:12:00] writing a paper or something.
I would stand at my dresser and I had a mirror above it and I had my paper on my dresser and I would just talk and then I write it after I talked it out. So I find that one very, very helpful.
Jenny: I love that. I think this is something business owners kind of struggle with too, because you hear the word copyright in your sales writing, and you all of a sudden think like, it's this mystical thing you have to know and you have to do it right.
Or else, but really you can write how you talk. And that's like, you know, when you read something and you just, you can tell the writer had a lot of fun writing it and they were themselves and their personality is on it, you know? I don't know if you swear in the pockets, they're not bullshitting you or like putting on this sales hat, it's just, I'm talking people.
That's literally the kinds of copy that does the best is if you write how you talk and you imagine talking to that, in that person and just speak to them that way people can feel that when they read it, right. So you don't have to have this [00:13:00] magical, like obviously you can study marketing and copywriting tricks and all of that stuff.
We need to be this magical, like marketing genius to, to write to your audience. I guess there's no, like secret, you don't know. Right. It's just knowing who you're talking to and how you help them. And then just being you and doing that.
Jenzaia: I think, yeah, that too, with the amount of live video that we do and people being on stories that if you're writing in the way that you feel like you have to versus writing as yourself, and then people see you in a live video, you're talking about.
You are as a human, there becomes a disconnect. And I've talked to clients about this with their ads of the, it has to be in your voice. It can't be in my voice because when they click on the ad, they're going to go see more of your voice. And so if it's in my voice and it doesn't, it doesn't mesh, right?
Like we have to make sure that it's talking to you. And so it's interesting thinking about that. If there's an extension of all the writing and your business really does need to be that real authentic. [00:14:00] Human that you are as the face of your brand behind it.
Jenny: Yes, for sure. And it's, it kind of happens to all of us, right?
Like when I like me and you talking, we're just having a casual conversation. We're laughing, like whatever. But then when you go to sit down to write for your business, or this happens to me, I go to sit down and like write an email to my list and all of a sudden I'm like this button's up prefers professional life.
Lady in a suit like, hello, I am Mrs. Roth. You know, and I don't know why that comes out when you sit down to write smart business, but this is, that happens and be like, is this how I end? Another thing I do is I read out loud, my copy a lot, like after I write a blog post and email Instagram caption, read it out loud and think like, is that like, if I was saying this on stories, if I was saying this, you know, an IGT wherever.
On a podcast. Is this how I would talk? And if it's not like, just something to think about, right. So you can read it out loud and see if you can hear yourself and it too. Well, that's a good tip. I
like that [00:15:00] because you would, you really would notice that like formal writing or whatever it would, whatever persona you're taking on.
If you're trying to say it out loud, you're like, oh wait, I would never talk like this.
So
Jenzaia: something that comes up a lot with like clients of mine and students of mine is what happens after we get them on the email list. So we we've done the ads and the goal is of course, to grow the email list. But then the welcome sequence is a bit of a mystery.
So do you have any tips for writing that so that it's authentic to you, but it's also a good introduction to your business and it's kind of pushing people towards a sale potentially. What, what are your tips for that?
Jenny: Yeah, for sure. I'd love to walk you like a really simple, welcome slash nurture slash sales secret.
And so I've seen, so, I mean, and I'm sure you have too Jenzaia and there's so many different ways to crack an egg, right? There's so many ways you can set up your, your email sequence. And I've seen [00:16:00] really, really good email sequences with like 24 emails. And I've seen really, really good email sequences with like three.
So just like, I mean, there's a million ways to do it. I have a simple way that, you know, we can talk about and you can add to it, removed from it, like whatever, make it your own. Like. So the first email, like after someone opts into your list, they're probably opting in for a lead magnet or something free that you've given them.
Right. So I always think the first email that you should send out to them would be one that delivers that lead magnet and. That's one thing. I see people do a lot when they deliver that this first email, it's like, here's the lead magnet. Here are five facts about me. And also here's, here's this blog post that might interest you.
And here's my Instagram follow me over there. And it's just like a lot for one email. So I really think a good way to like, think of that first email is just like deliver that lead magnet. Have it be an exciting email for them, right. Your free thing is here coming in, [00:17:00] hot, free XYZ. Here it is. You're going to love this.
Here's why click here and get it and keep it really simple. So they can just really consume that first email and that lead magnet.
Jenzaia: That makes sense. So like one topic, one email. Okay, good.
Jenny: Yeah. So that first email, just getting them excited about the lead magnet and giving them space to like, consume that.
So then the second email that can go out in this welcome sequence, I think it's important to when someone's new on your list, don't make them wait a week to hear from you. Right? So you deliver that lead magnet. Don't wait seven days or five days to. Emailed them again, right? Like you're fresh in their mind right now.
They're like interested in what you have to say. And they've said, yes, I want it. You know, so my advice in this welcome sequence is to email, like send the emails out within like 24, maybe 48 hours of each other. Like get them on the seat, you know, talk to them while they're listening, I guess, basically. So the second email on your list and your sequence, I would send out like 24 hours [00:18:00] after the first one.
And that one is the one where you can be like the, about you write your brand story. The why you're like the person to help them. You know, it's kind of like the email that's like, Hey, you're, you're getting this email because you signed up for this free thing yesterday. This is who I am. This is how I can help you.
This is what you can expect while you're on my list. You can spark curiosity, like to learn how I grew my business while working as a, as a teacher, like here. And you can have them click over to your, about me page on your website. So that second email, I think is a really good time to like, introduce, introduce yourself to your audience more.
Jenzaia: That's a question that I see a lot and I get a lot is how often should the emails be spaced out? And is there such thing as too soon or too far? And I think you gave a good rule of thumb, especially at the beginning 24 to 48 hours is a good way to, to keep them interested. Well, you still have them because it's so true.
If you give them their freebie and then you don't email them [00:19:00] until the next week, then they may. Not remember who you are or anything. And then now you're just there just cold on your list. And especially if you're running ads to it, then you've just wasted money. Basically, if you don't keep them warm.
Jenny: Yes, exactly. Like, just think about all the emails that you get over a course of a week. Right? Like if somebody gives you some like that lead magnet, that free thing, and you're like, yeah, I want to hear from you. Think of all the emails that come in between that. So definitely I'd say, send out your sequence, this welcome sequence, each email within 24 hours of each other, I've even seen people send like the lead magnet and then 12 hours later send out the second email, right?
So they space them out, even shorter, maybe 48 hours. You can keep it really humanized to like in my second email, I send out, it's like, you're getting this email because you opted into my free thing for the next week. You're going to hear from me every day after that, you know, this is an automatic sequence you're reading.
I'm a real human though, you know, here's about me. So kind of let them know like, right. Like you're in the sequence, you're going to get emails from me every day for a week and then [00:20:00] monthly or whatever. So you can kind of, I dunno, just make it really real for them so they know what to expect. Yeah. And I think that that's good too, because I've seen
Jenzaia: in a Facebook group recently, actually somebody was complaining about how people are sending out too many emails and that she was unsubscribing.
But if you set those expectations of, I have five emails coming out for you in the next five days. So stay tuned and then you'll move to my weekly or my monthly email list. Now that sets people up for the right expectation. Okay. Five emails to get to know the person. And then I won't be hearing from them every single day.
Whereas if you don't set that expectation, they might be like, oh, an email every single day. Like, this is ridiculous. I don't want this too much. I already have exactly what you said. So many things coming into my email box. I don't need somebody else, like every day adding to it. So by.
Jenny: I agree. And you can even, you know, on the second email you send out, you can even be like, you know, over the next week, you're going to hear from me every day at the end, you're going to get the chance to join my [00:21:00] program or purchase whatever, whatever you're leading to your signature and your lead in offer that you're leading them to.
If you want to know more about that right away, click here, because maybe somebody is interested in working with you right off the top. Right. They just consumed your leads now. You know, they, they love it. They got another email from you. They, they know who you are now. Like instead of making them wait till the end of your sequence to pitch, like let them know, like you're in the sequence at the end.
You could, you can join this. If you want to know more about it earlier, if you hate waiting, like I do whatever, like you can get in on that here right now. Yeah. It makes it easier for them. Okay, so freebie all about
Jenzaia: me. And then what would email three
Jenny: B yeah, so then email number three and number four are really similar, but I always, when I set these up, I always make these two emails again, within 24 hours of each other.
If you can be just delivering your best, most valuable content, right? So these are emails where you are linking [00:22:00] to blogs. Linking to podcasts interviews, you've done. Um, maybe an Instagram post that just blew up whatever. Um, this is where you're just really, you know, thinking of your signature offer in mind at the end or where, what, how people enter, you know, purchasing from you.
What do they need to know? Like answering those questions, delivering free value to them, resources, all of that stuff. That's really the focus for email number three and four, and it'll be different, you know, depending on like what you're doing. Is what you're sharing, but really just to educate, show yourself as the expert and just really keep that reader engaged in learning from you is email three and four.
I like that
too.
Jenzaia: Pulling, pulling the, like for me, it'd be podcasts episodes, but pulling those podcast episodes that push them towards whatever the sale is.
Jenny: Yeah, absolutely. So when you do that, then email number five is a really nice flow because I think that emails should be your best case study or client [00:23:00] testimonials.
So you've already delivered them. The free thing they know about you and your program. That's coming up, you've delivered like some content showing them that, you know, what you're talking about and how you can help them. And so now you're going to show them a case study or a client testimonial. This can link to that on your website, like a huge case study, or you can share it right in the email.
Good subject lines or like how my client went from point a to point B, right? How my client went from 4k months, 10 K months, whatever that is for you, but like really showing that results and letting them see themselves in those shoes is like, you know, number five in that sequence. And then is that, it sounds like there might be another one.
After that I send out email number six, you know, 24 hours later. Again. The pitch. That's where you're like, you know, you've been with me these last five days. Here's my offer. This is how you can work with me to do it, click here. So that's kind of the flow. And then email number seven. After that, I was it's [00:24:00] optional.
I like to add it on though. It's kind of like a thank you for being here. So it's like you made it to the end of my sequence. You heard about this program. Thank you so much for being here, going forward. You'll hear from me every Monday or whatever that might be. I also want to know. You know if gift for being here.
And that can be just like, for me, it's a free email sequence template for my readers, your photography. It could be some stock photos. It could be a guide of blog, post exclusive for them, whatever, just to thank you for being here, kind of thing on your list. And that's it. That's really a really simple, welcome email sequence that you can, that you can set up and have going out automatically for you.
That kind of does all the things as someone is onto your list. First.
Jenzaia: Oh, I'd like it. Cause it has a little bit of that. Who are you? The free content of nurturing the sale. Plus the testimonial wrapped in there. People love to, I don't know if people necessarily love testimonials. Like, I'm not sure anyone's walking around being like I love when I get a good testimonial email, but what I mean by people love them.
It sits in the back of their mind of, [00:25:00] well, Jenny said that so-and-so got these results. Maybe I could get those results and it like twirls in the back of their mind. And it adds to that the social proof and it adds to the excitement and the value of whatever you're about to pitch to them.
Jenny: I love that. Like, especially as a service provider, myself and you to like, you know, like, oh, one thing people ask me a lot is like, what's that like average ROI people get when they hire you, you know, like what's average, you know, results do people get and how long does it take? And I get that question a lot. And so like maybe other service providers do too.
And like, this is a good way to answer it. You know what I mean? This is a good way. So make sure. Whatever you're sharing here. This case studies testimonials, not just like, oh my gosh. I worked with Jenzaia was amazing. Do you know what I mean? Like, not just a gush, but one that shows like real results. Like, oh my gosh.
When I hired Jenzaia, I had to 200 people on my list and now I have 800 people on my list. Work, show them that return on investment in that case study. And I've also written it for [00:26:00] clients. I feel uncomfortable, like bragging, like look what. I do. And I promise I'll get you six figure year. Here's the here's how Jane did it.
So you can also write it in a way that's like telling them straight up. Like, this is the part of my sequence where I'm supposed to show, share the client's testimony with you. But I feel uncomfortable about that because yeah, in my program, clients have gone on to have a six-figure business or they've gone on to do this or that.
And you can read, see that here and here, link to some, you know, whatever testimonials. But basically at the end of the day, that's not my success, it's theirs and so proud of them and all that. So you can, you can set it up however you want, but just kind of having that in your mind, like bragging on your clients and showing love to them and showing that to other people and also kind of that return on investment that people can access.
Jenzaia: I like that. I want to say some, a little bit more humble, the way to go. I'm like I didn't do the hard work. They just followed my methods and followed [00:27:00] my, my teaching. And they were able to make this happen.
Jenny: Yeah. At the end of the day, it's whatever you're comfortable with. I think we forget that in business. Like you have to do it this way. You have to do it. However people are teaching you. So you can start writing things or doing things that you don't feel comfortable or at home with. And it doesn't have to, it just not have to be that way. You can still have effective copy and still stay aligned with, you know, how you feel about doing.
Jenzaia: Which is really important. And I like the shift that the online space has been making recently, or at least that I felt it has away from that bro marketing that felt really slimy. There was like the tricking people and making them feel like. Insane extreme FOMO.
And like, if you don't buy it now, you'll never get another chance. Kind of. I like that. We've moved away from that obviously towards more empowered choices and more educated and more like almost more [00:28:00] feminine type of marketing where there's relationships and nurturing that are involved and we're being authentic and is more important than just making that sale at the end of the day.
Jenny: I love that you brought that up. So one client who I've been writing her emails for, for over a year, we've been tracking, you know, every subject line we send out, every email we send out, we track on the spreadsheet, the open, the click rates, and we've been going through all this. And we've noticed that her email subject lines, like, instead of saying like how to reach 10 K months when she says in her email subject lines, how I reached my first 10 K a month.
Right. So instead of saying like how. 50 reels in an hour. If she says, here's how I batch reels this week, those where she talks about herself and just shares, like what she's doing and her own experiences get so much more engagement and clicks and sales and opens than the ones where she, where she's using that [00:29:00] marketing, that we're all taught to be like, This is how to do it.
Like, educate, you have to do this. You know, this is the way when she's just, when we're just showing up in her subject lines, like, Hey, here's how I'm doing it. People are like, okay. You know, so that's very interesting to me too. I think as consumers we're smarter and you, I don't know about you, but like, you know how like a sales page is set up and it's, there's like bullet points and it's like, you're this person who does this, or you're feeling like this.
And it's all that you language thrown out. For me, I almost zone out when I read stuff like that. Cause I like know that I'm in, I know that I'm in the pitch or that the pitch is coming. And so like someone she's telling me, like here's what I did to, to build a business. Here's what I know. I'm like, okay.
So I don't know if the same is for you.
Jenzaia: But, well, that's really interesting and it actually kind of segues a little bit into what I was thinking. My next question would be is tips for those headlines, like not headlines, but the, the subject line. And then that other piece [00:30:00] of copy that. You know, it's like great out a little bit beside the subject line.
I don't does it, does it have a name? I don't know what it's called, but you know, that, that other, like the thing, do you have any tips for that? And I really liked the one that you gave already, which was using the I language versus trying to push your message on people, but any other tips for them?
Jenny: Yeah. So I know what you're talking about. I think it's inflow desk. They call that the preview text. So it's like the little snippet below the subject line. Right? So subject lines. Okay. Yes. So here's a tip I learned from Abby Perez. She's a writer and she teaches writing to, um, specifically to moms who want to build a writing business.
She says, okay, first of all, with your subject line, Don't freak out, because think about when you go to your inbox in the morning, like deciding what emails you're going to open. Are you like scrolling subject lines or are you scrolling? Who it's from? For me, [00:31:00] I'm S I'm scrolling. Like I open emails, like 99% of the time based on who they're from, like very rarely are you like being like, oh, what's the subject line say, so think about that.
You can't, there's nothing you're going to say in an email, subject line, that's going to make somebody who's never frigging heard of you. Be like, oh my gosh, I gotta read it. Like maybe if you really really know exactly what's in their head at that moment. But on the other hand, if it's somebody you follow and you trust and you've heard from a lot and you consume their content before, and it's always good and it's always kind of led you down the right path and you like it, you're going to open their email, even if it's.
You don't even know what the subject line said, you know what I mean? So this is such good advice. This is, there's like a little pressure on the subject line to take the pressure off. And when you're going to read subject lines, like I said, those ones that are like, hi, where you're just sharing your story.
Performing. I've seen perform really well. Peaking curiosity is always good [00:32:00] saying stuff like, well, that didn't go well or, well here. Guess what? I did that one time I broke out in hives or a really good way to add curiosity is add the word. This Tarzan Kay is a great email copywriter. She teaches that anytime you want to keep curiosity, say that, use the word this, so do this to make 5k months.
Not seeing results with your Facebook ads. You need to do this. So add this. That's a simple way to add curiosity. Other things I've seen work really well in subject line lately are just subject lines that are different. That aren't the same old ones you scroll through. So just be yourself. Someone's we've I've written lately for clients I've done well, or once, once it like girl calm your Tatas.
And it was a funny story. I had to email one. My gateway drug was when she did. And it was, it was just hilarious. Not about doing drugs at all, but about, you know, how real was her, you know, Instagram, whatever, all that stuff. So something different, something funny, something that people aren't. Seeing over and over [00:33:00] again and a way I kind of run it through to make sure I like my subject line is I think what I opened this email, like does this subject line, if I seen that in my inbox, I'd be like, oh yeah, I kind of want to read that.
Or would I be like, whatever, you know? And if it's kind of the, whatever one, like maybe go back and try again, like how can you spice it up? And emojis,
I love for emojis. Like I get this question a lot, like, should I put exclamation marks? Should I put. I think it fits with your brand. Absolutely. Like if you use emojis, I use tons of emojis and exclamation and smiley, smiley, smiley face, whatever. That's just how I am. I put it in there, but if you are more professional and your audience is more, you know what I mean, more professional and not, not into that at all, then maybe skip it, but I don't think you can go around.
You do it. It's all about you and how. You know how you show up and how you are.
Jenzaia: It's interesting. When I first started my email list, I was using Kajabi and I feel like I got [00:34:00] a warning every time I did like three or four exclamation marks. Cause I'm totally that girl, like multiple explanation marks. So.
And I got a warning of like too many punctuation or all caps. You can't do this. And so I stopped doing it, but that's totally me. I'm total. Like if you were to scroll through my text messages on my phone, you'd just see like too many question marks, too many exclamation marks, too many capitals. Like, so maybe I'll go back to it.
Maybe I'll stop being afraid. Cause I'm not with Kajabi anymore. I switched to Flodesk so maybe I'll go back and hopefully they won't give me that same error, error. I guess may cause problems.
Jenny: No, I wouldn't. I would just be yourself. I'm the same way. I think MailChimp one time, uh, I put two emojis in the subject line.
It's like just, you know, one, one emojis, plenty method. No, it's not. I speak in emojis, you know yourself, try me MailChimp. I call you. [00:35:00]
Jenzaia: And then the preview text is this the same thing? Take pressure off. It doesn't really matter.
Yeah. Yes. I think so. Maybe my only tip for, you know, subject line and preview text is, you know, you type it into the little boxes in your email service provider.
So you, you don't want to write a whole book here, right? Because it won't show up and you're in your reader. Email, it will be like half a sentence. Like what? So I like to test my now and see like, was that too long? Or they only getting half my thought because I'm kind of running on here. So shorter is better.
Test it out, send it to yourself first. See when somebody gets my email, are they seeing my whole subject line or are they. Like the first 75% of it. And then nobody knows what this is about. You know what I mean? So shorter so they can get the whole idea right on that first click is maybe my only like format tip there.
So yeah, I, this is something I do
with ads, but it probably is relevant with the. The [00:36:00] headlines too, or a subject lines is to look at it on mobile because I tend to do all of this work on my computer, but the number of people who are scrolling through Facebook or Instagram and going to see the ad on mobile on their phones is at least 50% if not higher.
Right. So it's probably a good idea to check and see what that subject line looks like on your phone. And not just on your computer with the smaller
Jenny: screen. Oh my gosh. Yes. That's great advice for sure. Yes.
Jenzaia: Awesome. Do you have any other like burning copywriting tips that you want to share with us?
Jenny: Gosh, I feel like it talks about a lot of good stuff we did.
I don't think so. You know, just that rule of one, picturing that one client and giving them one action to take picture them sitting across from you. How would you talk to her or him over. And being yourself and you're writing, it'll come out across the page, I think. [00:37:00] And making your writing worth your readers time.
Right? Reading it out loud, making sure is this fun to read something. I would enjoy reading personally, all of that stuff. I think, you know, that's just good writing tips. It flows into sales copy for me, it's one in the same. So yeah, I think we, I think we did it. I was like right
Jenzaia: there too. You just went over all of the tips you were fast, which was actually going to be my next, my next question is, could you just go over some of those big points you made?
So thank you. Awesome. If people want to find you and learn more from
Jenny: you, where should. Yeah, thank you. So I'm on Instagram at Jenny Roth copywriting. My website is Jenny Roth, copywriting.com. And I have a three it's like a 15 minute masterclass. I'm writing that email sequence that we went over here on this episode, and then there's a template like a $27 template you can purchase if you want to plug and go with that, which I'm a huge fan of plugging and going.
So yeah. Goes [00:38:00] out. So thank you, Jenzaia
Jenzaia: I'll make sure that all of those are linked in the show notes. I've really loved talking to you. So thank you
Jenny: so much. Thank you.
Jenzaia: thank you for listening to this. Week's inspiring story. If you'd like to share your story with us, then head to marketscalegrow.com/journey and complete the quick application for then head to our community@marketscalegrowth.com forward slash community. So you can join our group of inspiring teacherpreneurs who are [00:39:00] working on growing and scaling their businesses to see you soon.