Building a Lead Generation Strategy with La Classe de Mme Caroline | 126
When you start your business, it can feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall. But over time you realize that spaghetti throwing is a waste, and if you want to push forward in your business, you have to get strategic. This is exactly what I talked about with La Classe de Mme Caroline during a live strategy session.
Caroline started selling on TPT in 2013, but she didn’t take it too seriously until she went on maternity leave in 2020. At that point, she was ready for her hard work to pay off.
When I met with Caroline on the call, she wanted to get clear on her marketing strategy. You’ll hear in our session though that our main focus was building a lead generation strategy. Lead generation, in a nutshell, is the process of bringing in new potential customers to hopefully warm them up and increase sales in the long term.
Here are some of the big takeaways from our call:
#1 Be Consistent
Showing up consistently is huge. When you show up regularly, your audience knows they can trust you and rely on you to put out content. Secondly, you are building a relationship over time, slowly warming and priming your audience.
Luckily, Caroline is already showing up really consistently in her business by sending weekly emails and publishing blogs each month.
#2 Create a Quality Lead Magnet
A quality lead magnet serves several purposes. First, by having a lead magnet that is packed full of information that people want, you will bring in more organic traffic. By the way, if a lead magnet is performing well organically, that’s a sign it may do well with lead generation ads as well.
There is always debate over giving too much away or not enough. I would focus more on how to stand out, how the lead magnet connects to your larger offers, and what will attract people to that lead magnet.
I also recommend putting a “next step” inside your lead magnet. This next step might be to purchase, book a call, or whatever action you want them to take. While you have the momentum going with someone, you want to utilize it. This lead generation strategy is simple but often neglected.
#3 Create a Welcome Sequence that Converts
One big thing that Caroline and I talked about with her lead generation strategy is freebie libraries. In Caroline’s current sequence, she is giving, giving, and giving some more. She has a password to a freebie library and also puts several freebies in her welcome sequence.
I encouraged her to step away from the freebie palooza, and instead create a welcome sequence that focuses on the story behind a product, social proof, pitching a sale, building trust, and so on.
#4 Retarget People through Ads
Caroline is already using some ads, so we talked about how she can create a lead generation strategy that takes her ads to the next level. For example, when someone signs up for your list through a lead magnet, you can then retarget them with sales ads promoting the product you pitch inside the welcome sequence.
At the end of the session, Caroline walked away with some next steps. First, she is going to update her welcome sequences. Then, she’s going to lean on her ghost writer to keep promoting new content. Lastly, she’s going to map out ads she can realistically run (without it being too overwhelming).
Don't forget to follow me on Instagram @heyitsjenzaia and tune in next Saturday for more business tips and strategies!
xo, Jenzaia
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Episode Transcript:
Hey there - I'm Jenzaia and this is Market Scale Grow - a podcast created for ambitious teacherpreneurs looking to have a bigger impact on the world, achieve freedom, flexibility, and ultimately make more money. With weekly strategy sessions and inspiring stories from fellow teachers just like you, my goal here is to help you create a customized marketing strategy so you can grow your teacher business beyond your wildest dreams.
Today is a live strategy session. I am here with Caroline from La Classe de Mme Caroline. I'm super, super excited to be chatting with her, so hello!
Caroline: Hi. It's really nice to be here.
Jenzaia: Before we dive into the strategy session, why don't you tell everybody how awesome I am…
Actually pausing before you tell everyone how awesome I am. Carolyn was my maid of honor and I was her maid of honor. We've been friends for like 10 years.
Caroline: Oh, longer than that!
Jenzaia: Stop it. I don't want people to know how old we actually are. We went to university together, so we have quite a good relationship.
And if you've ever heard my like brand origin story where I talk about, I was like six months postpartum and my son was driving me bonkers, as six month olds do. And I had a friend who told me, maybe you should put some more time and energy into your T P T store. That friend is Caroline and she's also the only one who even knew my T P T store existed for those first six years.
So, okay, for real, you don't need to tell people how awesome I am. You need to tell them who you are more than what I just did, and a little bit about your business.
Caroline: I've been selling on T P T since the end of 2013, so about nine years now.
Jenzaia: Wild wild west back then.
Caroline: Oh my God, TPT has changed a lot. I started my store because back then there was nothing and I was in my first year teaching and I had no resources.
Jenzaia: Especially for French, because you dove right into French immersion resources.
Caroline: So absolutely nothing for French, there was almost nothing. I think I was among the first French teacher sellers on T P T at the time.
Jenzaia: And now what? Where has that road taken you?
Caroline: So for a long time it was just very much a side business hobby. Started off with me just making things for myself and then posting them.
And seeing what would happen. And you know, my first month I made $2.70 and I was like, yes! You know why I know it is because my dad made fun of me when I first started. He's like, how much did you make this month? Ha ha.
He was totally a smart ass about it, but that's okay because now I rub it in his face. That has done well for me over the last almost 10 years. So yeah, it started as just a hobby and then evolved when I went on maternity leave two years ago, I started taking it a lot more seriously.
And things have just skyrocketed. And now I just wanna keep going on that upward trend.
Jenzaia: Yay.
Okay. So what are we gonna chat about today?
Caroline: So I wanted to talk about just a marketing plan in general. As of right now, I haven't done too much. Like, I've done a little bit of list building on Facebook ads and I feel like I'm okay on the email and Instagram side of things, but other than that, I would like to market more.
Jenzaia: Okay, give yourself credit where credit's due because you regularly put out blog posts, which is part of a marketing content plan. You regularly email your list, which is a huge part of a marketing plan, and you are super consistent on Instagram.
So get a little bit more specific.
Caroline: I guess Facebook ads, cause to me, I was like, well, I'm doing these things. I don't know if I'm doing them super well, but. I guess I am. Because it's the first year I've done them consistently.
Jenzaia: Consistency is huge in the marketing sphere right now.
Just like showing up regularly so that your audience actually knows they can trust you and rely on you to put out that content first of all. Second piece is that it builds over time, right? So, It starts out as just one blog post a month, but then all of a sudden you're like, oh wow, I have like a hundred blog posts.
When did that happen? But it's because over those two years you continue, to put stuff out. Right? So that's huge. And then also with the shift in the market that we've seen in the last like six months. And going forward, if we do go into a recession, and maybe when we're listening to this in real time, we'll know if that's happened or not yet.
But with the recession, people are getting like, More fearful of spending money. And so they're falling back on people that they have relationships with and that they know they can trust. And so doing all of those things is super, super important.
But Facebook ads, what do you wanna do with Facebook ads?
Caroline: Like I mentioned, I've only ever run ads to list building. Which obviously like it did really well for me, but it feels more like I'm spending and not getting anything in return. Hmm. Because of the whole, like you're getting people on your list and in theory you are going to get return from that eventually, but from looking at it as like money in, money out, it feels like it's just money out.
Money out, money out. Compared to running ads to something that can make you money, then at least it feels a little bit more, not like, it doesn't feel like I'm wasting my money. I'm not scared that I'm just wasting money, you know?
Jenzaia: Mm-hmm. I know exactly what you mean. And part of the reason why I recommend lead gen ads as the first ad that people run is because there is a return in the form of email subscribers.
So unlike boosting a random post and you're like, I don't know what that got for me. It at least feels like there's something coming back. But what we need for you is a strategy that capitalizes on that list building that you're doing, because I would still recommend that 80 to 90% of your money goes towards list building unless you wanted to totally pivot and start promoting T P T products or something else.
But even if you wanted, cuz you have a membership too, right? Even if you wanted to direct people to your membership, I would still recommend some sort of list building piece where you're gonna run the ads to. But then building out the rest of the funnel basically, so that it's not just they're on your list and then they sit there doing nothing.
So which direction are you like wanting people to go to? Your T P T store or to your membership?
Caroline: Not to membership. I'm not at that point. I said to myself that I would open up my membership for new subscribers and do another launch in January. But just with where I'm at right now in my life and like the challenges I've had, cause I'm still at work and all that, I don't see it happening right now.
I'm kind of just maintaining but I'm not really necessarily wanting to grow well in that direction yet. I feel like I wanna get some sort of solid lead magnet for my membership and hopefully convert people from that to members, but I'm not quite there yet. So I think I'm more wanting to go with the T p T side.
Jenzaia: Are there particular bundles or products that would work really well with the lead magnets you currently have, or are your lead magnets you're currently using more just for your ideal audience and they don't really direct to specific bundles?
Caroline: So my lead magnet, my main lead magnet now is actually like, it's four, five little free samples that I had of different phonics programs that I have in my store. Basically, what I did is I put it all together in one document, but also added lesson plans for like a week.
Jenzaia: Is it that book thing that we did the ads for?
Caroline: So that's my main lead magnet. So technically it leads into four different products cuz it has a shared reading. It has little books that's the same stories as shared reading and then phonics activities that are principal and phonics activities that are digital.
But I don't think I wanna run ads specifically for any of those products. They're all very high ticket products. With the exception of the shared reading, which is I think $30, but all the other ones are like between 80 and 115 I think.
Jenzaia: Because they're like bigger bundles, right?
Caroline: They're big bundles. They include like all sounds that I have products for and it's all the alphabet sounds and the compound sounds. So, I don't know. I feel like there's 40, 50 packs in each of them.
Jenzaia: What happens when someone opts into this freebie? Do they just go onto your regular email list or do you have a special welcome sequence? Like what's happening to them?
Caroline: Yeah, so I have a special welcome sequence. Obviously you get the big freebie and it has the password to my freebie library and just kind of little introductory things like that.
And then the second one has a different freebie that's also phonics based. It's phonics posters. So just a poster for each sound. Then like again, a reminder about the freebie library. And then the third one has like, here's my social media, here's my T P T store, blah, blah, blah, that kind of stuff.
And again, the reminder, don't forget this is a password to the freebie library, and then they get put on the general mailing list. And then I have a bunch of one-off opt-ins that are like on my blog and things like that.
Jenzaia: And those ones would go through, you get that freebie?
Caroline: Mm-hmm. And then a couple days later, you get put on the phonics welcome sequence, and then you get those ones and then wind up on the email list.
Jenzaia: Why are you pushing the freebie library so hard? What's your reasoning behind that?
Caroline: So my freebie library has at least 50 freebies in it. Like it's in my opinion, I don't know about other people's opinions. It's actually quite big. I feel like it just shows my value of not just the phonic stuff, but other freebies that I have.
Cuz there's science stuff, there's kinder stuff, there's planning, there's lots and lots of literacy and things like that.
Jenzaia: So I think one of the big shifts that you need to consider making is switching that push to the freebie library.
There is value in a freebie library. And teachers especially love that kind of stuff. But if you want a financial return, From getting people opting in, like let's just say you were to put more money behind that specific opt-in. If your goal is to make money back, then you need to be selling something in that email sequence.
It's nice to have those freebies. Don't get me wrong, people love freebies, but if you're pushing a free thing, a free thing, a free thing, then maybe people won't think all you do is free things. You're not really giving them the push to go and buy something. Does that make sense?
Caroline: Yeah. And I'd have to go look at the emails again.
Cause honestly I don't look at them very often. I want to say that the third email does promote products.
Oh it does have some! So I have two days where it's free phonics-based resources.
And then the third one pushes three other resources that are paid and of varying price levels. Because like I said, I've got some really expensive items and I have some that are not.
Jenzaia: Especially on T P T, where there are a lot of like less than $10 resources. Pushing something that's like 80, a hundred dollars is a pretty big ask. But like, just imagine you're running that ad for $5 a day, $10 a day, and you get one sale a week. Right? You're making your money back and then some. So just consider that.
But my recommendation is, first of all, to pick one product. Because you have like four different products in there. I could see the reasoning behind pushing more than one product. But typically I would say pick one product that goes really, really well with the lead magnet. And then you wanna be selling it for all of the emails. And so doing like frequently asked questions about the product, having customer testimonials that you've pulled off of T p T and including those in the email.
So people get the social proof and they see the social proof now. Social proof doesn't tend to sell by itself. It's more like in the back of people's minds. Very few people will likely say, I bought it because I read the testimonial, and that was what pushed them over the edge. But it truly actually is, if you look at sales psychology.
So adding like testimonials in how you use it or how other people have used it in the classroom. Those are some ways that you could do those emails so they're not just like, Hey, buy this product. Hey, buy this product. Hey, buy this product instead. It's like frequently asked questions about this product.
See the product in use. Here's the story behind why I made this product, if that was relevant. Now, there may not be a story behind all products. I know sometimes it's like, well, I did another one and it worked really well, so I decided to continue the line. But if there was a story or you could kind like fancy up the actual story, then yeah, add it into the emails.
Then those kinds of things really help people build an awareness of the product and also a desire to buy it. And if you had something more in the 30 or $40 range, you might feel better about selling it versus something that's like 80, a hundred dollars. And it's worth your time because creating an email sequence like this is time consuming, but it's worth it because everyone who gets that opt-in goes through the sequence and starts seeing it, and then you can start to recoup some of the money.
Building your email list is not a direct return on your money the same way as like products. But the other thing that you can do is once somebody opts in, You can start to show them the actual T P T listings, we can create an audience of those people. And we target them. So after they've opted into your freebie, you start to retarget them to the T P T listing.
So they're getting the email sequence that's saying like, here's all the reasons why it's really great. And also they're starting to see ads for the product as well. And so it's multi-layered.
Caroline: Do you usually recommend running ads directly to T P T versus like to blog posts?
Jenzaia: So it's all about the different types of ads, right?
So running to your blog post would be more of a visibility, brand awareness ad, and that's to grow your warm audience. And even if you have an opt-in at the end of that, The goal is still just getting people to be more aware of you and to nurture. The second one is lead generation, where you're building your email list, whether it's with freebies or a video training or whatever.
And then the third one is sales ads. So something like direct to t p T would be considered a sales ad. Yeah. And they kind of layer on top of each other. When someone looks at the blog post. That triggers them to start seeing those lead generation ads. And then once they opt in, it triggers them to see the sales ads so that you're not just promoting to cold audiences.
Lookalike audiences typically do the very best. But if you have people that read a blog post or three blog posts and then they opt in, and then they start seeing those T p T ones, they're even more likely to buy. They know who you are. They're able to trust you, and likely they've clicked around your blog. Your email has some of those promo types, and so they're starting to think about it. They've used the freebie and so it's just the layering of the different ad types and typically you'd wanna run like 80 to 90% of your ad budget towards the lead generation because of the long-term ability.
Not only can you do that sales funnel in the emails that I told you, like where you're actually directly selling a product, but you can also run a quarterly workshop where it's like $27 or something and get people to buy into the workshop. And then those micro commitments, micro purchases, $27 or even less if you wanted, but just like they've purchased from you.
And then once someone bought something once, they're more likely to buy something again, especially if you give them quality.
Caroline: The other thing I'm curious about is kind off on topic, but with that big lead magnet that I've got, the guide that comes with the lesson plans and the four, five resources you need and all that.
What I was doing is, so I had like, you're gonna use this story to teach a sound, and then at the end of it, I was like, here's the full product. Is that a good practice?
Jenzaia: Yeah, I would a hundred percent recommend that. Always putting something in your lead magnet is the next step for them.
And so if that next step is to purchase. Then that's perfect. My next step is to book a call with me because typically for someone to become a client, an ads client, book a call, right? And so I'm not selling anything in my lead magnet. It's a book call with me to learn more about working together.
And so thinking about what the logical next step is for you. And so, yes, a hundred percent, I would recommend having those links for each of the bundles in there.
Caroline: Okay. Makes sense. I do have to say on a side note, when I created it, so last year I used to use like U T M codes, but very specific. So then I had a bajillion U T M codes showing up, so then I generalize 'em.
For example, I have an upsell page in my preview file. So I have like preview file, upsell page, and if someone clicks on one of those links, then it gets tracked as that. So I use a generic one for my opt-in and I kind of, you see where this is going? Done one specifically to that one as opposed to the one that I use for all opt-ins, cuz then I could have measured how well that specific opt-in was doing as opposed to the other little one-off once.
Jenzaia: This is such a good conversation to have because it really depends on how you're gonna use that information and what you wanna know from it. And so if all you care about is, are your upsell pages working, then that's perfectly fine to have generalized them. But then, there could be certain cases where you're like, no, I wanna know specifically this upsell page.
So you can always go in and change it.
Caroline: I know it wouldn't catch the data from this year, but that's true. My assumption is that the vast majority of the money I've made from freebie files would come from that one. I think a lot of my other freebies are leading to small products.
Jenzaia: The other thing, I have a client I'm thinking of specifically that runs a lot of opt-ins, like through her blog post. And what I'll do just to make sure that the opt-ins are actually working is when I first start running it, I track the data back of how many opt-ins she was getting.
Before I started running the ad, because she gets so much traffic to her blog already that even without ads, some of her freebies are getting five to 10 opt-ins a day with no ads. So I always go back and look before. And then I know like, okay, this one typically gets one or two, and now we're getting like 10 to 15.
So that difference is the blog, right? Whereas sometimes if the ad isn't working, I'll be like, oh, well we're getting five to 10 before and we're still getting five to 10. If that's what we were getting before then the ad isn't actually doing the work that we want it to do.
So you could potentially, if you have records and you have a way to go and like, see if you can compare week to week, like when it was running and when it wasn't running.
Caroline: Problem is that I use flow desk and it doesn't give you much.
Jenzaia: Yeah. I also use Flow Desk, but I embed all of my forms into Squarespace, and so at least I get some data from Squarespace, like paid views and you can install the Pixel on Squarespace.
So it is an option to create a landing page. You use WordPress right?
Caroline: Yeah. And that's not what I did in the beginning, but that's what I've moved to. So I took Amy Porterfield's list Building Society, which is what caused me to create that really great lead magnet and I guess, Since we're talking about it, I have to give props to my husband because he's the one who came up with the idea of combining them.
And then I came up with the idea of making lesson plans.
Jenzaia: Mm-hmm. So there's a couple benefits. I personally feel like it will be easier if I do ever switch away from Flow desk to convert Kit or one of the more robust systems that the URL itself won't change. That's why I'm doing it. I just have to like flip out the form. That's the first one, and then the second one is what I already said.
Flow desk doesn't have a ton of data of how many people saw the form or anything like that, so I can get a little bit more information from Squarespace.
Caroline: That's true. I've never actually looked into it like I look at my data, but I don't have time to do everything, so I look at certain data points and I'm not looking at specifically page by page how they're doing or anything like that.
Jenzaia: I feel like it would be really good for you to have this information..go in and change those U T M codes. At least for this one, like just this freebie so that you can see, or anyone that you're gonna run ads to so that you can grab that information and have it, and it'll like give you a bit of comfort of knowing that it came from the ads. Like you said before, it's likely that the majority of it is coming from here. But then this will just give you that peace of mind that you see the difference in the U T M code.
Caroline: Yeah, that's true. Now that I'm thinking about it in hindsight, I'm like, that's probably what I should have done is just have one generic one for all the others. But I don't think at the time when I created this, I don't think it was really on my radar.
Jenzaia: Yeah, it's all part of realizing what is important to you and what isn't. And what I'm thinking about right now is my lead magnets. I actually have a couple of them.
It's three identical landing pages, but I use one Url for my podcast. I use one U R L for things like Instagram and Facebook. And then I use the third U R L for collaborations. It just happened over time of me realizing, oh, I actually wanna know who's coming from my podcast versus social media and I wanna know who's coming from collaborations.
Caroline: I've done that for my landing pages too. So I have one that I use on t p t. I have one for ads, but I haven't run ads in a few months.
And then a third one that I just called generic. So that might be the one if I go into the French Facebook group and if I were to go and promote it, I would use that link, or if I post about it on Instagram, I would use that link.
Jenzaia: Yeah, like you could potentially have the three different U t M codes for each one, or you could have just the one for ads, so you specifically knew what was coming from ads, because that would help you identify the return on ad spend as well. The other thing is that my three different landing pages have three different forms in flow desk as well.
So they opt in and they get tagged as podcasts, tagged as social media, and tagged as collaboration. So then I also have that information when I run ads. I have a landing page specifically for ads, so that they get tagged.
Caroline: Yeah, that is what I'm doing. But then they all lead to the same welcome sequence. So I'm not differentiating who is buying things that came from like an ad versus from T P T.
I'm not doing the differentiation, but I'm okay with that.
Jenzaia: I feel like they might be more likely, like it would almost matter more from the actual freebie itself, and then you could always have a U T M code specifically for your email so that you knew that they were coming from an email.
Caroline: That's true. So anything that's linked directly in an email is tagged as a u t m, as a mailing list.
Jenzaia: Do you have any more clarity of your marketing strategy and what would be helpful?
Caroline: I think so. To be honest, I don't see myself running ads right this second because I just feel like I have so much on my plate and it's a lot to balance. I didn't realize how hard it would be to go back to work and have to do it all.
Jenzaia: Yeah, because for anyone who doesn't know you had your daughter in October of 2020. And we're in Canada. So your maternity leave was 12 months?
Caroline: 12 months and extended to 18. Then I extended it to 20. So I was off for 20 months. And I didn't do anything t p T related from the time she was born until March or April of 2021.
Like I did absolutely nothing. I wasn't posting anywhere. I didn't have my email lists really built at that point.
And then in March or April, I actually started taking it seriously and that's when I got back on Instagram, got back into making products and solely built it to where I am now.
Jenzaia: It's crazy how much that consistency can change everything too.
Caroline: Yeah, it makes a difference.
Especially cuz you know, digital sales skyrocketed. I don't think mine really did. I had plateaued by that point. But then when I started working more seriously on things and not just running it as a side business, things kinda took off again.
Jenzaia: To wrap things up, my favorite question to ask is three things you're gonna take away from this episode or from this session.
Caroline: So I think I need to change up my welcome sequence.
Jenzaia: I'm glad that's the first thing you said. So what's your second takeaway?
Caroline: So my second thing is I have a ghostwriter for my blog and I've worked with her on like one email sequence for launching my membership. And I've also bought her swipe files for sales and she launched a membership last week and I didn't sign up and like, it was just bad timing for me cause end of school and all that stuff.
Now I have fomo, so I'm gonna message her and be like, please, please, please, please, please! Can I join? And see what she says. That's my takeaway number two, because I'm hoping that her guidance will help me with takeaway number one because it's not my forte.
Jenzaia: The copywriter that she's talking about is Branda, by the way. The Relevant Collective. She is also my copywriter. She writes the blog posts and the emails for this podcast. So if you are a regular listener / reader, then you'll recognize her writing.
Caroline: She's awesome. I was one of her OG clients. I think I was client number two. We discovered this about a month ago, and we celebrated our one year. My blog is doing so much better. I wouldn't have been posting it all this year if it wasn't for her.
Jenzaia: Okay, so you need more Branda in your life is takeaway number two. And then what's takeaway number three?
Caroline: Takeaway number three is that I do want to start running all these kinds of ads that you're talking about and like actually do it, but also giving myself some grace because I am, like, I've mentioned it a few times, struggling to just kind of keep up with the day-to-day, month to month recurring tasks. And I need to figure out where to fit it into my calendar. I wanna get ahead on a few things before I can tackle something new.
Jenzaia: You have a lot on your plate, so give yourself grace because you are doing a lot and consistency over time has a huge impact, right? And you can see that with your blogs and your emails consistently going out and your Instagram, right? And so consistently like taking that chunk of time whenever you decide to do it, and writing that first email of the sequence and then writing the second email and then writing the third email.
All of a sudden you'll look back and be like, oh, it's all done.
Caroline: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Jenzaia: Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much for joining me. Tell everybody where they can find you.
Caroline: So you can find me on Instagram @mmecaroline. I would say that's it, because other than that, my other stuff is very specifically geared to people like my audience. I'm always happy to chat with new sellers and all that, so send me a message if you want.
Jenzaia: Thanks again for coming on.
Caroline: Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure catching up.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Market Scale Grow. I'm so thankful that you've taken some time out of your busy schedule to make me part of your journey. If you love this podcast, don't forget to share it with your friends. And then head to your favorite podcast app to subscribe so that you won't miss next week's episode or any of the upcoming ones. And if you loved it, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcast so that other people can find this podcast and we can impact teachers and teacher business owners around the world!